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Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:23 pm
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Nilo911
Moon


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 166

Post subject: Give some advise to the nooby Reply with quote

I started this game 11 days ago and since then Im warned for 50% point reduction practically after every 3-4p game I play. I am having a hard time evaluating the prices of the streets,what and when it is beneficial to both players and generally everything that surounds the subject of the ''cheat trading''
I will probably quit the game since I have no clue how to avoid getting banned.

It would be great if any experienced player could make a list of excact prices that are expected in a ''fair'' trade.

Thank you in advance for your concern![/b]
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Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:56 pm
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trace567
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Here is kreso's rules (game creator/owner)....

Cooperative play is considered cheating. There are two possibilities, applicable only when more than 3 players are playing:
a) Two players conducted a trade, where the trade is obviously advantageous only for one player.
b) During auction, a player didn't bid the price up despite that being obviously disadvantageous for him. The auction is then won by another player for obviously too low price.

Here "advantageous" means increasing the chance to get better rank at the end of the game. Trades conducted in 3+ player games must be advantageous to both parties involved in trade.

I'll try and break this down for you.

First rule in ALL trades. They must be of BENEFIT to BOTH players.
This means you can't make trades that are to benefit yourself alone, or to benefit the other player at your expense.

Example of this from one of the trades I've seen you offer. Where you were offering the other player to buy a set, giving you cash. But the player had no cash really and only credit. Your offer was going to use up almost all their credit. On passing start they will be charged 20% for credit use. Therefore had they accepted this trade it would of killed them.
Therefore not BENEFICAL to them and certainly not advancing their end rank.

Other examples of trades I have seen you offer. Where you are in trouble with little cash or no cash. Trying to sell a set or property towards the end of the game for a extremely high value. This late in the game and for the amount you wanted, plus upgrade cost is of NO BENEFIT to this other player. Only to yourself.

Each property on the board has a base value and credit value. Now base value CAN be negotiable in games where there is perhaps little cash around, or the trade will not be workable at the base or higher price. On these occasions below base CAN be MUTUALLY beneficial. BUT take real care on deciding when this is. The base price prior to EC (economy collapse, start going to minus) is there as a guide.
Example, say you own 1 yellow. Other player has the other yellow. For example this other player is using credit so cash is -500. Start is low and it will cost them to pass start. You have 1200 cash, ec is coming and if you paid them 900 for this yellow you would have only 300 cash for building. But start is at 30 and could go to ec anytime.
You could offer 700 for their yellow, making you a set and getting them back to positive cash (not using credit). You now have enough cash to almost get 2 upgrades, thus making it more likely you can get to 3 upgrades before ec starts. But had you bought at 900 this may not of given you time or cash to build.

This is an example of when it is possible to go below base value prior to EC. But this will only be games with limited cash, close to EC (paying to pass start) and if the money given CAN be of BENEFIT to the other person.

After EC, value drops. Unless players have lots of cash and good sets for income. On a property such as blue where the credit value alone is 400, care should be taken to at least cover this credit value.

No matter what stage the game is at ALL TRADES MUST BENEFIT BOTH PLAYERS. With a fair chance of improving their status within the game (advancing them). A trade that is NOT MUTUALLY BENEFICAL is a cheat trade no matter what point the game is at.

If a player is without question winning, they should not trade to another player who is on the brink of losing. As it may increase their chance to get a higher rank, but the trade is clearly not going to improve the others position, if they clearly have the game won.

The only real rule you need to follow is that of:

A trade being MUTUALLY BENEFICAL TO BOTH PLAYERS
With EXPECTED chance that this trade CAN IMPROVE both players chance of gaining a higher end rank within the game.
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:16 pm
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Nilo911
Moon


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 166

Post subject: Reply with quote

Trace, I have some questions. I read some posts where other noobies are accused of breaking the rules and you say that you will overpass this issue because they dontknow the values of the prices ,due to the fact that their unexperienced. I started playing the previous week and I was banned for every single report, why wasnt I shown leniency? The other quetion is about the subject of trading the two blues. Due to the emphasis people have shown in this subject ,I ask you again if I will be treated more strictly in the future?
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:26 pm
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Yiles
Moon


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 441

Post subject: Reply with quote

Look Nilo-

Sorry you got caught up in this, your experience was the factor. I merely accepted your trade to show that a previous ruling was incorrect. Sorry, but apparently you had made this offer to others, so it was only a matter of time that you wold have been punished anyway. If you want, I will give you advice on prices, AND just remember that two blues for 400 is no good, but 1000 for two purples is much worse...
_________________

Bruce Lee wrote:
“When the opponent expands, l contract. When he contracts, l expand. And when there is an opportunity...l do not hit...it hits all by itself”
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:08 pm
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HHHfan
Moon


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 338

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the best advice to give to new players would be to stick to 2p. if not, make your trades and take ur chances, cause a cheat today, is fair tommorow, and fair today is a cheat tommorow, that is IF it doenst depend entirely on who makes the trades.

if you stick to 2p, then you cant be turned in for cheating, cause generally people dont trade in 2p, therefore, there is no contraversy. there isnt the constant battle with teaming and people putting other peoples third property up for auction and letting it go for next to free. you only have the dice, yourself, and your opponent to deal with. you do however have to watch what u say to your opponent, cause if you say the wrong thing, you will get banned, despite the mute button. Rolling Eyes
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:14 pm
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MATTIE
Ex Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 309
Location: Cardiff, UK

Post subject: Reply with quote

HHHfan wrote:
the best advice to give to new players would be to stick to 2p. if not, make your trades and take ur chances, cause a cheat today, is fair tommorow, and fair today is a cheat tommorow, that is IF it doenst depend entirely on who makes the trades.



hhhfan, i am gonna have to ask you to cut down on your baseless accusations , get your facts straight and talk with them , no blah blahs here
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:28 pm
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Nilo911
Moon


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 166

Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to apologize Yiles, I never thought it was your fault. Im not blaming nor you nor any of the moderators.

My intention is to understand the game as well as possible.


About the subject of valuing the prices ,Im very much interested in this. Send me a messege in private when you have the chance.


Last edited by Nilo911 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:34 pm
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HHHfan
Moon


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 338

Post subject: Reply with quote

#1, i made no baseless accusation here.

#2, i tried to get the facts, but was blatently denied them. check for yourself. i asked for even so much as a short list of circumstances that u could, and could not make certain cheap trades, and got denied. therefore, there is no way even for the most experienced player to know, when certain trades are ok or not, much less a new player.

#3, i said IF in big letters, not for sure.

#4, my advice for someone new would be exactly what i said, for exactly the reasons i said them. no baseless accusations here.
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:37 pm
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CANON
Ex Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 570

Post subject: Reply with quote

HHHfan, you should change your username to GMfan, because we all know you're secretly still addicted Wink Laughing
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Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:02 am
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mikefuson
Planetoid


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 80

Post subject: Reply with quote

Play lots of 2 player games to learn the game. Don't jump into larger games until you understand the game. Read the rules it will help you. In the end losing is how you learn.
Mike
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Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:36 am
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theunknownamus
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Also, just play causually. Don't care about points or ranks. At the end of the day its a game, not a way of life. Play for fun, and overall enjoy the game. Mr. Green
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