Galactic Magnate logo  
   
 
Forums Home Register FAQ Website  
 
 

Forums home Galactic Magnate General Discussion Discussion of thread: Ban and Penalty Guidelines (in game)
Display posts from previous:   
      All times are GMT  
Post new topic  Reply to topic

Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:10 am
Author Message
MrCrabbs
Guest





Post subject: Discussion of thread: Ban and Penalty Guidelines (in game) Reply with quote

I have some comments on these rules. It would be good to have Trace's views and the views of other mods and of players.

This simmary of the rules is quite a long document, I only scan-read it for the bits that interested me. I have to say I doubt that many will sit down and read the whole thing, but here it is for anyone who's missed it:

http://www.galacticmag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=47980#47980

OK so, my points:

1. Non-trading It's good to see the inclusion of deliberate non-trading as a form of cheating, since that was always in Kreso's rules, and it can ruin games. And it's right that it should only be punishable when absolutely clear, since it would harm the game to punish too readily.

I am concerned though that the only burden of proof mentioned seems to be using a player's own words in the chat log against them. I feel sure that only stupid players will condemn themselves in this way.

For the rule to be in any way fair (rather than just punishing those silly enough to announce that they are cheating), the rule should be enforced by trade mods based on game conditions, in the same way that they already do a good job of judging on active trade cheats.

2. Flooding of beneficial trades after request to stop This set alarm bells ringing for me, for many reasons:

a) If a trade is beneficial, it is quite normal to offer it to a player again later even after they have said no - to let them know that it is still on the table.

b) If two players have many properties in common, then there can be many different possible combinations that are mutually beneficial. Sending either radically different, or subtly different offers can result in a deal.

c) A player requesting that another cease sending them beneficial trades seems to me to be pretty much a form of non-trade cheating in itself. They may fairly ask for a bit of time, or send a counter-offer, or say that they feel not trading is better for them, if they are already in the lead for example. But to just ask not to be sent offers (as I have experienced some players do after just 1 or 2 offers), is unreasonable.

d) What is "flooding"? It is too vague to be enforced consistently by different moderators.

e) If a player would benefit from a trade, but does not send offers of their own, and yet objects to another player "flooding" them with offers, I would be very afraid that the person trying to trade would be punished, and the one refusing a beneficial trade would be defended by this rule.

Please assure me that this is not a charter for an even more anti-trader, pro-dice-roller future!
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:26 pm
Author Message
trace567
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly yes sorry it is insanely lengthy, it more a guide users can turn to for info when they have received a ban or point reduction, to better understand how we came to decide upon the number or days or how much we point reduced.
Also like you say certain areas maybe of importance to some, but not at all to others. So most people really don't need to read it in either one sitting, or in full.

The non-trading is on a trial really, to see both how players take to it and how mods get on in ruling it.
It will of course only apply when the user has literally no alternative but to trade to get out of the lower end positions.
So in a way it will be a case of see how it goes, and make alterations as required.

The flooding of beneficial trades is aimed to give users who are being hassled by non-stop offers that would be classed as legal the ability to have some power to say stop. If a user is sending practically or identical offers 10 times in 5 minutes it is pestering. The opponent may have alternative plans.
But to try and force someone into accepting by brute force is unfair.
As the game progresses yes you of can of course try sending the offer or similar again, maybe they will now be interested this time.
But its to prevent the trade bullies keep going non-stop because they have a set thing in mind and nothing else and will not stop till they get their way.
If you can think of a better way to word it on the guidelines then I'm all ears.


Also Crabbs I'm glad you decided to post to open a discussion on the guidelines, I'm keen to see other users thoughts, and input. The guidelines can be altered if good suggestions come forward.
I'm going to move this to galactic magnate discussion btw.
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:20 pm
Author Message
theunknownamus
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

Those 2 rules that Crabbs stated were my biggest concern as they seem to somewhat contradict themselves. But common sense should be able to distinguish not accepting a beneficial trade from not accepting a bombarded trade.
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:54 pm
Author Message
HHHfan
Moon


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 338

Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still on about rule b. the bidding rule, myself!! Its written in plain black and white, would be nice if it could be enforced somehow!!! Personally, I don't see refusal to trade with someone a cheat. maybe I don't want to trade with a person because maybe they paid far out the caboose to block me, and maybe i want to let them choke on it! However, auctioning someones third property and not bid it to a fair price, is flat out cheating, there's a rule against it, and it cant be enforced! To me, that is the rule I'd work on enforcing, I've seen more games ruined this way than anything else ever!
      Back To Top  

Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:20 am
Author Message
Fort
Planet


Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1603

Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha , seems like i got lot of time in hand these days... actually.

Well let me come to each one of them

1.Ban length -

Quote:
Minor issue - 5 day
Medium issue - 10-15 day
Major issue - 30 day
Serious issue - 100 days, 365 days or 1000 depending on case.


U Really think 365 or 1000 will make a difference? I dont think so, so lets make it 365 or just 100, atleast gives a person chance to return?

I am not aware if you hand over 30 days on major issue on first instance, but going by profile of your mods, its not very unlikely. How about 5 days on first instance irrespective of violation?

2.
Quote:
Multiple cheat trades - either in 1 game or over time will be taken to ban AND point reduction

Again this will be graded based on the issue Minor (5), Medium (15) Major (30) and so on, if repeated identical offence ban may increase by 1 step.

Multiple cheat trades in 1 game is a medium issue so will be given 15 days ban.


I would suggest just point reduction and then gradually increasing the ban length instead of hitting them with 15 or 30 days, that too ONLY on obviouis cheats. Grey areas cannot have ban placed.

3.Point passing :
Well why ban for long? Just ban for 30 days and take away all the points from all the accounts. Just enough to make people notice.

4.Flooding, Stalling, Username, AFK while kickouts etc? Well seriously we do not have enough players to fill a lobby so why kick , unless someone gets high on it? Rest of the things should be frowned upon but bans?

To sum up , let me reiterate something which i have been saying since 4 yrs, GM is the highest moderated gaming site i have ever seen in the internet ever here ever means about 13 years. I have played like 12-15 online games till date and never seen such high degree of moderation. Remember gaming is for 15-30 yrs people primarily - the group which would be high on adrenaline.
      Back To Top  

Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:03 pm
Author Message
trace567
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input fort Very Happy

I would like to see a decrease in use of 1000 day bans, I still believe there can be a need for them, but rarely. 1 year ban's are still very lengthy, but the bonus side of that is they would barely drop off the list to the place we cannot access. At present as of yesterday the list goes back 2 weeks approx from 1 year. Any active ban's placed past that can't be accessed to undo!
Ban's of 30 days plus are issued sometimes on first offence if it was bad enough.

One of the problems of issuing only 5 days for a relatively serious issue can be that obviously creating a new account name is very easy, and if not checked properly the person can basically just do it again many times under different names. Unless checks are made properly.

No ban's are given for 1 or even a couple of cheat trades (long as they weren't done in 1 game or over a short time. A ban usually only gets placed if there have been a number of point reductions made over a month. When it becomes clear the point reductions simply aren't working.

I personally rarely kick AFK's....with low numbers there is no need for it in my opinion. Especially as many will go off to do other things waiting for more users (perhaps of similar points to themselves) to arrive.
I only AFK kick if lobby is busy, or I have seen 1 user there for many hours, so clearly they have left GM up and have walked away.

Flooding? do you mean trades or scrolling?
I only ban on scrolling if the person does it always, or to the point where they would literally drive players away on it. I prefer however to warn them not to rather than ban. Ban on that is last resort.

Flooding of trades also, my main point with that is of flooding cheat trades. There has so far been no ban placed I think for just flooding, only flooding of un-beneficial trades.

Point passing - yes I do think this could be changed, I would like to keep it graded by how many times they have done this, so we don't slap a 30 day ban on someone who just did it a handful of times.
But we could have first ban there as 30 days max. Then repeat offence of course would need something a bit stronger if that failed to bring it home to them.
Sadly it has happened where someone was caught point passing massively, got 30 days and points stripped only to do it again! Why I will never know.
      Back To Top  

Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:26 pm
Author Message
Fort
Planet


Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1603

Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually i remember some mods saying that they will keep the place *CLEAN* and play with handful of people rather than having dirty folks keeping the GM busy. I am not sure about how dirty they were, but someone has sure driven away some half dirty as well. Not that i promote abusers here, but hey show me one gaming site which is as stringent as this in chat bans . Anyone? We killed ourselves, no one to blame my friend.

And i m not questioning the dedication of mods' here, its just that they dont seem to function they way other gaming sites do , and get handful of users to their sites.

Also Tracey, are you people promoting tourneys in lobby? Like telling everyone there about it frequently or helping with registrations to people not having forum accounts.
      Back To Top  

Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:38 pm
Author Message
trace567
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually i remember some mods saying that they will keep the place *CLEAN* and play with handful of people rather than having dirty folks keeping the GM busy.


I don't recall that, or when that would of been, or by whom.

Quote:
Also Tracey, are you people promoting tourneys in lobby? Like telling everyone there about it frequently or helping with registrations to people not having forum accounts.


Yes, but not as much as I would like us to. I also try and send out a mass email from the forum in advance of tourneys (I forgot to this time till today Embarassed )

I will admit I do not play much on other game sites, one or two I use when GM is down etc. I have noticed though most have inbuilt profanity filters, and easy ways to block or report unlike we do.
      Back To Top  
Post new topic  Reply to topic

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


      Back To Top  

Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Avalanche style by What Is Real © 2004