Galactic Magnate logo  
   
 
Forums Home Register FAQ Website  
 
 

Forums home Galactic Magnate Strategy Buying the 4th white in a muliplayer game
Display posts from previous:   
      All times are GMT  
Post new topic  Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
How much is the 4th white worth to you?
less than 900
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
900-1100
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
1101-1300
33%
 33%  [ 10 ]
1301-1500
30%
 30%  [ 9 ]
greater than 1500
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 30
      Back To Top  

Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:40 pm
Author Message
Eclectico
Planetoid


Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 85

Post subject: Buying the 4th white in a muliplayer game Reply with quote

I'm just curious what most of you guys think the 4th white is worth in a multiplayer game. Below I give a simple scenario. Please cast your vote... using your "instincts", "math", "magic 8-ball", or whatever typically guides your decisions.

It's late game... recession is looming, let's say start income is +20. All of the monoploies are owned by yourself or your opponents. There is no chance you can gain any more tiles and there is no need to worry about blocking any of your enemies.

One of your oponents offers to sell you the 4th white. Neither you or him are the clear leaders or in clear last place. If you buy it, there is some chance you will improve from 2nd/3rd to 1st/2nd. How much should you pay for that 4th white?
      Back To Top  

Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:13 pm
Author Message
Magflag12
Moon


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 373

Post subject: Reply with quote

It is entirely situational, BUT, if it is a 5p game I would pay like 1350-1400 for a the last white.

4p- 1275-1350

3p- 1200-1275

2p - 1000-1075 maybe.

In 2p I usually don't like to have all whites just because of opportunity cost, but again it just depends on the situation.
_________________
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
      Back To Top  

Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:59 pm
Author Message
judd
Planet


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 634
Location: All over the local papers

Post subject: Reply with quote

At this stage of the game, for me, cash movement is key.
I'll edit this in the morning to reflect my full views.
      Back To Top  

Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 am
Author Message
tatoom
Planetoid


Joined: 06 Jan 2009
Posts: 47
Location: Westside baby!

Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it determines according to te positions you are in or the players that you are.

If you are a player with all 3 whites, it should be 1300-1400.
If you are a player with all 3 whites and has already planned out a certain monopoly, it should be worth 1100-1300 to you.

If you are a player with 2 whites of 3, it should be worth 1500-1600 to you or maye up to 1700.
If you are a player with 2 whites of 3 and has already planned out a certain moopoly or already owns monopoly, it should be also worth like 1400-1600 to you.

If you are a player with 1 white of 3, it should be wroth 1100-1200 to you.
If you are a player with 1 white of 3 and has already planned out a certain monopoly, it should be worth 900-1000.

If you are a player with no whites and you are trying to avoid another player from getting his 4th whte, it should be worth 1200-1400 to you.
If you are the same player but trying to avoid another player from getting his 3rd, it should be worth 1400-1500 to you.

Everything here is meant to tell you how much it should be worth to you or how much you should bid up to when you are in a certain position as a certain player.
AT some situations when you have less than 2000 cash for example, do not look at this and you should decide the worthness for yourself.



Omg.... I bet this was all a waste of my time writng this. No one will probably even care or read this. Rolling Eyes I hate you people! YOU BETTER READ THIS AND UNDERSTAND! Mad
_________________
You all hate me here.
      Back To Top  

Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:46 am
Author Message
judd
Planet


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 634
Location: All over the local papers

Post subject: Reply with quote

1 more post like this and you are gone from the forum and game.
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:18 am
Author Message
judd
Planet


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 634
Location: All over the local papers

Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets compare what the value of whites is in comparison to say blacks in this scenario.

4p game
You have 3 whites therefore income equation is 4 x 3 x 130 = 1560 income
If you were to have the final white the income equation would be 4 x 4 x 150 = 2400 income

If you were in the same situation with the blacks
You have 3 blacks therefore income equation is 3 x 3 x 100 = 900 income
If you were to have the final black the income equation would be 3 x 4 x 150 = 1800

So if we consider on simple income terms
3 white = 1560
3 black = 900
4 white = 2400
4 black = 1800

This is why people tend to pay more for white, however, I feel most people miss the point here, for me the real effect is the following (please post if you see it differently as this is a strat thread and i'm just expressing my opinion)

For me its all about CASH MOVEMENT not specifically income as removing money off your opponent is equaly as important as income in recession (assuming your other sets net out against each other)

3 white = 1560 cash movement
3 black = 1800 cash movement (900 income & 900 cash reduction)
4 white = 2400 cash movement
4 black = 3600 cash movement (1800 income & 1800 cash reduction)

How do you see it?
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:15 pm
Author Message
MrCrabbs
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

How many players are you assuming is in the game judd? I'm not understanding your calculations.
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:34 pm
Author Message
judd
Planet


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 634
Location: All over the local papers

Post subject: Reply with quote

4 players mate, i thought i did the math bit simlpe enough for a man of your calibre Wink
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:08 pm
Author Message
MrCrabbs
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, after you explained to me I got it.

The thing is judd, in 2p, hurting your opponent is just as valuable as getting money for yourself. The same is not true in multiplayer. With four blacks, for example, yes you are dishing out a potential maximum of 3600/2=1800 damage to your opponents, but that is split between them.

1800/3 = a maximum of 600 damage to each of your opponents, ie: if they hit every one of your 4 blacks in a lap of the board.

However, on average they will only hit about one black (or white) per cycle, and dishing out 150 worth of damage to each of your opponents, per turn, is less desirable than getting an extra 4*150=600 from whites, on average, per cycle. You can spend that 600 - you can't spend the 150 that each of your opponents doesn't have.

So, whites are better in general in a multiplayer, since it is generally very handy to have some cash to make trades with. And whites give you more of it.
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:04 pm
Author Message
judd
Planet


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 634
Location: All over the local papers

Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points Crabbs, but you are not looking at the maths properly (not very often your right, but your wrong again Laughing )

Simple income holding 4 cards

4 white = 2400
4 black = 1800

So black are 600 short of the whites in terms of pure income, the bit you missed was what I refer to as CASH MOVEMENT.

Of the 1800 income for 4 balcks, you correctly stated 600 (1800/3) is what the player holding the white card will also loose.

So cash movement for the player with white will be 2400-600=1800

Which is equal to the income for holding blacks.

There is also the bonus thet there is a further 1200 coming off the other 2 players in the game.

Blacks win over white if holding all 4 and you will, in most games, pay more for white.

Just looking at the numbers for holding 3, the white exceed the black in terms of cash movement by 360 cash.

Which is why, players will (and should if they understand the game) pay more for the last balck than the first one, and will generaly pay less for the last white than the first one, this is due to the income profile of the cards (white early loaded and black late loaded).

Hopefully this thread has given the readers some numbers and ideas as to the value of white and black in a 4p and revealed a "Secret," of the game to some.
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:12 pm
Author Message
MrCrabbs
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

I am, I confess, impressed and annoyed at your being right.

However, you fall short of what you aim to achieve. You have proven that blacks are equal to whites, if player 1 owns the 4 whites and player 2 owns the four blacks. However, your "proof" that blacks are the better set is a touch confused.

It hinges on the blacks dishing out that 1200 potential damage to the other two players, who we can call players 3 and 4. The flaw in your reasoning is that it is just as beneficial to the player who owns white as it is to the player who owns black, for the income of players 3 and 4 to be reduced. So that 1200 is not a valid reason that the blacks are better. And since it is the only reason given, you have not proven blacks are better, but instead equal.

judd wrote:

Blacks win over white if holding all 4


Is incorrect.

What I have said here should not detract from what you have managed to prove - that in terms of swing, or as you term it, Cash Movement , a set of blacks is precisely equal to a set of whites. They're just not better Razz

It took me a while (a few seconds at least) to spot the flaw in your reasoning. But I was spurred on by the fact that I knew there would be one!


Last edited by MrCrabbs on Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:26 am; edited 3 times in total
      Back To Top  

Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:24 pm
Author Message
Bill2k06
Ex Moderator


Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 2675
Location: Manchester UK

Post subject: Reply with quote

ive decided to lock this post as i see it about to go into ''off-topic ground''

also i see tatoom making pointless posts more and more often.
Tattoom what happened to the mature young lad you used to be ?


i think enough of you have contributed to this to be a full enough of an explanation.
thnks all
_________________
      Back To Top  

Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:53 am
Author Message
judd
Planet


Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 634
Location: All over the local papers

Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple, blacks are taking a further 1200 out of the game than what white are, CASH MOVEMENT is helping the guy with white (to the same level as black i must mention).

But i appreciate the fact you acknowledge the fact the net income between holding either white or black is the same for the holder, But to go to a higher level, black are removing 1200 cash off the other players.

This is only the maths behind it, i try to offer nothing more.
      Back To Top  

Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:34 am
Author Message
MrCrabbs
Guest





Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it is probably right and rational that the whites sell for more than the blacks in a multiplayer - as Judd has shown, blacks are an exact match for whites if all four are owned (but strictly not better), and worse than whites in early game.

Most of the extra that is paid for whites reflects this early game advantage they provide. One white is better than one black, 2 whites = 2 blacks, 3 whites is better than 3 blacks, and 4 whites = 4 blacks. But as far as the debate has gone so far, the late game advantage of the blacks is myth - they only manage to pull equal at best.

It is important to see how much more valuable the 4th black is than the fourth white. But this is probably a lesson new players learned when they first looked at the board.
      Back To Top  

Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:07 am
Author Message
Magflag12
Moon


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 373

Post subject: Reply with quote

There is nothing more that I hate than owning only 3 blacks... owning 3 whites I enjoy, but owning 3 blacks just annoyed me. (talking 100 percent about the game.)
_________________
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
      Back To Top  
Post new topic  Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


      Back To Top  

Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Avalanche style by What Is Real © 2004